Roof Plans + Roof Details (All Structures)
All Structures (Comments below)
- All Roofs will have a standard 18" overhang
- All Roofs will either have a 6:12 roof pitch or a shallower 4:12 roof pitch over porches
- All Roofs are primarily Gable ends as oppose to Hip Roofs (except the Tower)
- All Roofs have their main ridges over the center (and lenghtwise) across the main spaces below
- Downspouts are also shown
- All Roofs are meant to be as simplified as possible to reduce costs.
Main House
- The main ridges that flank the entry are offset relative to the overall span which will produce a higher plate (wall height) on the rear elevation vs the front elevation. These main ridges are made symmetrical around the center line of the entry
- There are a few crickets to push the water around areas where roofs converge
- Fireplaces will be stone veneer and will be orthogonal relative to the house up to about 8ft then the stack will turn to a diagonal stack (a special detail that really doesn't add to cost but makes it really unique as also seen in the rendering)
- I suggest that we vault spaces that have center line ridges over each space (especially those rooms with a fireplace at the end of the ridge) - secondary spaces like secondary bedrooms / garage / etc... can have flat ceilings (this will be explored in greater detail when we do the ceiling plans).
- Trellis is shown over Impluvium Space (rear side of Entry)
Entertainment Barn
- Two Roofs - one main roof then a lower level (shallower pitch porch)
Guest House
- Single Roof - one main roof roof then an offset porch (shallower pitch)
Art Studio
- Single Roof - one main roof roof then an offset porch (shallower pitch)
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Replies
We might be able to burn wood with a "Rumford" fireplace. You are (or were - not sure if it has been repealed - have to do more reseach) allowed to do one Rumford (only - since they are more efficient and less polluting) in Contra Costa County. I did 2 of them (got away with it even though I was only suppose to do one - I argued that one was outside) on my last house.
Do a Google Search for "Rumford" fireplace and you can see my last house (our personal house) on this link:
Contemporary Craftsman - Haley Residence #3
Tim Haley said:
Reply by Greg Chabolla 1 hour ago
AGREED, MOVE ON TO ELEVATIONS.
Sounds good - these will take longer to develop but I'll start on the Front Elevation of the Main house.... then post it for your review..... then we can carry that language to the rest of the side / rear elevations - then to the other structures
ONE NEW COMMENT IN LOOKING AT ROOF PLAN - AT INPLUVIUM , COULD WE CONSDIER 1 JOINT CHIMNEY STACK INSTEAD OF 2? THAT IS, CAN 2 FIREPLACES (SIDE BY SIDE) SHARE 1 CHIMNEY?
Since Fireplaces these days are typically only gas (not wood burning) we can share the single chimney stack. I modified the Roof plan to reflect this. Have a great weekend!
Tim Haley said:
Reply by Greg Chabolla 1 hour ago
LOOKS LIKE YOU DID NOT PUT A HIP END ON THE TV ROOM -- MAY HAVE BEEN AN OVERSIGHT (OR PURPOSEFUL?)
This was an oversight but I do now prefer the hip since the Office became a Hip (these two will balance each other out and therefor give it greater purpose and meaning - in other words keeping it a gable would actually make it not as clear from a design perspective).
Since this was really the last remaining comment I'll move onto the elevations (which will take awhile since it is a lot of work). This doesn't mean we can't revisit the work after seeing the elevations (or even the plan) - that's why its important to see all aspects of the design since one can inform the other. Let me know if you agree with moving onto the elevations at this point + later on we'll do the ceiling plan and that also could change the roof and elevations depending on the interior needs of the space.
Reply to your Comment from last Thursday
Sorry for the delay in turning this around; its been a learning exercise (and has made us appreciate even more the value you’re delivering).
I actually had a delay myself on this - dealing with our utilities at our house but got the issues resolved and have a great new subcontractor that is a plumber / trencher / utility hook up (have a few good plumbers now).
After studying your roof plan, we have some suggested changes. We also need more help thinking about one area in particular (above and around the kitchen).
It may be worthwhile to meet on this, especially if our ideas and/or notes are not clear. Just let us know.
At any time you want to meet we can. So far this is fairly straightforward, and your comments are clear. What I really love is my role more as a teacher with you actively engaged in the evolution of the house :) I do think though that we should meet to go over the elevations (when we are at that point) since there will be too much nuance to go over then
1) We’d prefer a pitch for the main roof plains of 7/12. We think the shallower roofs would look good at 3/12 (but we’re open to 4/12 if necessary). We have the tower at 5/12. Attached is our computer drawing indicating the pitches (“ROOF COMMENTS G & M’s EDITS”). We also added 2 hip roofs – at the TV room and office. Other minor notes are on the drawing and should be self-explanatory. Roof%20Comments%20%28G%20%26%20M%27s%20Edits%29.pdf
I think you did a fine job with the revisions to the roof plan. Roofs can get complicated but you seem to be able to visualize it really well !!! One thing that I didn't consider but realized after seeing your plan (see even the 'junior architect' can teach something to the Architect) - is that the tower will block much of the southern portion of the southern main ridge (over the family / dining) thus cutting back the opposite ridge above the parlor will still give that illusion of symmetry which gives a stronger gestalt to the structure. The only thing that I don't particularly like is the Option A (on the right side of your sketch) - since the dutch gable also has the advantage of being able to any attic spaces we may have (depending on how far up the ceilings vault - this we will get into after the elevations). However - we may find after seeing the elevations the hip maybe preferable (we'll have to see this visually once the south elevation is drawn).
WE AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENTS, AS LONG AS YOU'RE OK WITH THE DUTCH GABLE NOT BEING CENTERED ON THE KITCHEN ROOF WHEN VEIWED FROM THE SOUTH. DOESN'T BOTHER US.
LOOKS LIKE YOU DID NOT PUT A HIP END ON THE TV ROOM -- MAY HAVE BEEN AN OVERSIGHT (OR PURPOSEFUL?)
2) We’re uncertain about the roof line above and around the kitchen. We think your plan shows a long expanse that extends to the edge of the tower. From the front courtyard, the gable end is very visible. From the south elevation, the tower is completely blocked. We don’t think either of these conditions is ideal – so we tried to come up with options. The option (A1) shown on our roof plan above shortens the long expanse to reveal the tower. There are other options/configurations we’re considering and have attached pages showing our various ideas (“KITCHEN ROOF – PORCH OPTIONS”). Kitchen%20roof%20-%20porch%20options.pdf
These pages ("KITCHEN ROOF VIEWS") show different view angles that helped us visualize how the options would function and look. We definitely need your thoughts on these…Kitchen%20Roof%20Views.pdf
My preference is actually your first sketch (1) above for the following reasons
AGREED, THANKS FOR JUSTIFYING EVEN MORE WITH YOUR COMMENTS.
3) As we were playing around with roof ideas, we could also see how they may affect the exterior elevations. Different rooms have different roof heights, and they tie into neighboring roofs differently depending height, etc. We thought it would be worthwhile for you to see our computer elevations – we think they look pretty good (in association with the various roof lines). See attached (“ELEVATIONS”) Elevations.pdf
Looks Great ! The only difference that is remaining from what you have drawn vs what I am proposing is the Trellis over the Impluvium. You show it as a Tertiary trellis with 3 stacks of cross-beams. While I think it makes sense over the master porch (since it is south facing) ...I don't think it make sense over the Impluvium (since it is western facing - not as much sun as it being south facing + the Living room will also shade it).... making the space too dark (in my opinion) if it has 3 stacks of beams. I can still add this top layer stack of cross beams to make it as dense and the master porch trellis is you want (there maybe some other reason that I am not aware of?)
WE AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENTS ON THE TRELLIS, AND APPRECIATE THAT YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT THIS LEVEL OF DETAIL AT THIS POINT!
You'll be happy to know we didn't have any roof changes on the other structures!
Sound good.
Reply by Greg Chabolla on Friday
One more image to add to the discussion above re kitchen roof...
Another potential option (OPTION D). This may be closer to what you had in mind.
The bigger gable opening might be nice for a window. Not symmetrical lines on either side of the gable (right side lower), but that doesn't bother me too much. Could mess up interior ceiling plan. Again, for discussion only at this point. Kitchen%20Roof%20%28Option%20D%29.pdf
I am not sure if this large south facing window in the dutch able is desirable.... especially as it straddles the kitchen and prep kitchen. I was visualizing it being smaller and being a gable end vent where we could ventilate non vaulted adjacent ceilings easier .... and vents can actually be attractive - and they are very common on Wineries (I help design a couple of wineries in Napa and Sonoma)
OK, WE AGREE
Reply by Tim Haley on March 13, 2019 at 3:42pm
Went ahead and shrunk the rakes and gable ends to 12" since I wasn't sure on your preference
Went ahead and Modified per comment above
Reply to your Comment from last Thursday
Sorry for the delay in turning this around; its been a learning exercise (and has made us appreciate even more the value you’re delivering).
I actually had a delay myself on this - dealing with our utilities at our house but got the issues resolved and have a great new subcontractor that is a plumber / trencher / utility hook up (have a few good plumbers now).
After studying your roof plan, we have some suggested changes. We also need more help thinking about one area in particular (above and around the kitchen).
It may be worthwhile to meet on this, especially if our ideas and/or notes are not clear. Just let us know.
At any time you want to meet we can. So far this is fairly straightforward, and your comments are clear. What I really love is my role more as a teacher with you actively engaged in the evolution of the house :) I do think though that we should meet to go over the elevations (when we are at that point) since there will be too much nuance to go over then
1) We’d prefer a pitch for the main roof plains of 7/12. We think the shallower roofs would look good at 3/12 (but we’re open to 4/12 if necessary). We have the tower at 5/12. Attached is our computer drawing indicating the pitches (“ROOF COMMENTS G & M’s EDITS”). We also added 2 hip roofs – at the TV room and office. Other minor notes are on the drawing and should be self-explanatory. Roof%20Comments%20%28G%20%26%20M%27s%20Edits%29.pdf
I think you did a fine job with the revisions to the roof plan. Roofs can get complicated but you seem to be able to visualize it really well !!! One thing that I didn't consider but realized after seeing your plan (see even the 'junior architect' can teach something to the Architect) - is that the tower will block much of the southern portion of the southern main ridge (over the family / dining) thus cutting back the opposite ridge above the parlor will still give that illusion of symmetry which gives a stronger gestalt to the structure. The only thing that I don't particularly like is the Option A (on the right side of your sketch) - since the dutch gable also has the advantage of being able to any attic spaces we may have (depending on how far up the ceilings vault - this we will get into after the elevations). However - we may find after seeing the elevations the hip maybe preferable (we'll have to see this visually once the south elevation is drawn)
2) We’re uncertain about the roof line above and around the kitchen. We think your plan shows a long expanse that extends to the edge of the tower. From the front courtyard, the gable end is very visible. From the south elevation, the tower is completely blocked. We don’t think either of these conditions is ideal – so we tried to come up with options. The option (A1) shown on our roof plan above shortens the long expanse to reveal the tower. There are other options/configurations we’re considering and have attached pages showing our various ideas (“KITCHEN ROOF – PORCH OPTIONS”). Kitchen%20roof%20-%20porch%20options.pdf
These pages ("KITCHEN ROOF VIEWS") show different view angles that helped us visualize how the options would function and look. We definitely need your thoughts on these…Kitchen%20Roof%20Views.pdf
My preference is actually your first sketch (1) above for the following reasons
3) As we were playing around with roof ideas, we could also see how they may affect the exterior elevations. Different rooms have different roof heights, and they tie into neighboring roofs differently depending height, etc. We thought it would be worthwhile for you to see our computer elevations – we think they look pretty good (in association with the various roof lines). See attached (“ELEVATIONS”) Elevations.pdf
Looks Great ! The only difference that is remaining from what you have drawn vs what I am proposing is the Trellis over the Impluvium. You show it as a Tertiary trellis with 3 stacks of cross-beams. While I think it makes sense over the master porch (since it is south facing) ...I don't think it make sense over the Impluvium (since it is western facing - not as much sun as it being south facing + the Living room will also shade it).... making the space too dark (in my opinion) if it has 3 stacks of beams. I can still add this top layer stack of cross beams to make it as dense and the master porch trellis is you want (there maybe some other reason that I am not aware of?)
You'll be happy to know we didn't have any roof changes on the other structures!
Sound good.
Reply by Greg Chabolla on Friday
One more image to add to the discussion above re kitchen roof...
Another potential option (OPTION D). This may be closer to what you had in mind.
The bigger gable opening might be nice for a window. Not symmetrical lines on either side of the gable (right side lower), but that doesn't bother me too much. Could mess up interior ceiling plan. Again, for discussion only at this point. Kitchen%20Roof%20%28Option%20D%29.pdf
I am not sure if this large south facing window in the dutch able is desirable.... especially as it straddles the kitchen and prep kitchen. I was visualizing it being smaller and being a gable end vent where we could ventilate non vaulted adjacent ceilings easier .... and vents can actually be attractive - and they are very common on Wineries (I help design a couple of wineries in Napa and Sonoma)
One more image to add to the discussion above re kitchen roof...
Another potential option (OPTION D). This may be closer to what you had in mind.
The bigger gable opening might be nice for a window. Not symmetrical lines on either side of the gable (right side lower), but that doesn't bother me too much. Could mess up interior ceiling plan. Again, for discussion only at this point. Kitchen%20Roof%20%28Option%20D%29.pdf
Hi Tim,
Sorry for the delay in turning this around; its been a learning exercise (and has made us appreciate even more the value you’re delivering).
After studying your roof plan, we have some suggested changes. We also need more help thinking about one area in particular (above and around the kitchen).
It may be worthwhile to meet on this, especially if our ideas and/or notes are not clear. Just let us know.
1) We’d prefer a pitch for the main roof plains of 7/12. We think the shallower roofs would look good at 3/12 (but we’re open to 4/12 if necessary). We have the tower at 5/12. Attached is our computer drawing indicating the pitches (“ROOF COMMENTS G & M’s EDITS”). We also added 2 hip roofs – at the TV room and office. Other minor notes are on the drawing and should be self-explanatory. Roof%20Comments%20%28G%20%26%20M%27s%20Edits%29.pdf
2) We’re uncertain about the roof line above and around the kitchen. We think your plan shows a long expanse that extends to the edge of the tower. From the front courtyard, the gable end is very visible. From the south elevation, the tower is completely blocked. We don’t think either of these conditions is ideal – so we tried to come up with options. The option (A1) shown on our roof plan above shortens the long expanse to reveal the tower. There are other options/configurations we’re considering and have attached pages showing our various ideas (“KITCHEN ROOF – PORCH OPTIONS”). Kitchen%20roof%20-%20porch%20options.pdf
These pages ("KITCHEN ROOF VIEWS") show different view angles that helped us visualize how the options would function and look. We definitely need your thoughts on these…Kitchen%20Roof%20Views.pdf
3) As we were playing around with roof ideas, we could also see how they may affect the exterior elevations. Different rooms have different roof heights, and they tie into neighboring roofs differently depending height, etc. We thought it would be worthwhile for you to see our computer elevations – we think they look pretty good (in association with the various roof lines). See attached (“ELEVATIONS”) Elevations.pdf
You'll be happy to know we didn't have any roof changes on the other structures!
Best,
Greg
See comments below in your last post (quoted below) - Thanks :) Each comment relates to each # or bullet point per the original post.
All Structures (Comments below in Italics)
Main House (Comments below in Italics)
Entertainment Barn
Guest House
Art Studio
AS YOU KNOW, WE LIKE TO VISUALIZE YOUR IDEAS AND THE DEVELOPING PLAN ON OUR OWN COMPUTER WHERE WE CAN GET SOME RUDAMENTARY 3D PERSPECTIVES -- AND WE'RE DOING THAT WITH THE ROOF PLAN. WE'LL PROVIDE OUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS SHORTLY, TOGETHER WITH OUR SKETCHES TO PROVIDE CLARITY.
BEST, g&m - okay Sounds Great :)
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