Feedback on initial drawings

[Dave Long]

Hi Tim -

Sorry for the tardy reply - I have been letting your initial drawings sink into my subconscious :-)

Thanks again for leading the way with some initial drawings! Very helpful in letting us really think about the room layout.

Here I will add my major edits to the mix here. Will refer to locations using upper-lower/left-right-center as it refers to the U shape - e.g. "1st floor lower left" would  be where the kitchen is.

1. 1st floor upper right.

I'd like to chop the tandem garage space, leaving a half space in front of the 2 cars (for garage shelf space), and then extend out to the set-back line with a room that becomes our indoor/outdoor room. In this room we'd have the bar, and the piano. Some nice sliders would allow us to open up the entire room, but still close off this wing from the rest of the house (for AC, insects, etc.) This would be how we get to/from the spa area, which will likely be out the right side of the impluvium. Adjacent to the indoor/outdoor room should probably be a small bathroom with a shower, for spa cleanup, although I don't know if there's room for that. I still don't know where the grill goes - somewhere in this neck of the woods.

2. First floor lower/middle right.

Since we have a nice indoor/outdoor room on the right, the Great Room would not need longer open sliders. Instead, maybe 2 nice window seats that look out into the impluvium (I want Brenda's ideas on this) and some very nice windows. I can picture one of Brenda's sofa art pieces across from the powder room, along side one of the window seats; something like that. Also, I'm thinking of moving the Family Room furniture, so that the TV is on the far right wall - leaving corridor to the guest room.

The family room might not even have a door to the impluvium (the guest room has one); also trying to picture what is in the impluvium right outside the family room - I'm thinking waterfall or small path around rose garden, but not a porch/patio (that is on the right side - see (1)  above).

3. First floor upper left.

No major changes to the  "art studio"/guest room. This should have a small porch. Still  not sure where the spa goes, but probably not on this side of the impluvium.

4. Second floor upper left.

I'd like to change the "Office Bedroom 5" to be a "Upstairs Den" (or loft) with access to the "Northeastern roof garden". This roof garden will be large, and extend out to cover the entire first floor indoor/outdoor room.

5. Second floor lower left and "Top level roof garden"

I like your design of having the room over the garage being a "Storage room", with maybe a future project to turn it into some sort of specialty room (e.g. media room). I'm hoping that from this room (or maybe the Upstairs Den) I would have access to the "top-level roof garden", which is above the second floor, and potentially stretches out over the entire U shape.  Unlike the other "2nd floor" roof tops, this top-level roof top would be mostly for plants - especially along the edge facing the street, to pretty-up the outward view of the house. Access to this level seems a little tricky, but I'm sure you have some ideas. I was originally thinking the access would be from the "NE roof garden", but maybe it would be better to  have a stairs from within the Storage Room (not even sure if that possible though). Also, I don't think we need a Southern roof garden, as the top-level roof garden will allow us to pretty-up the front view of the house.

5. Second floor lower left/middle.

Bedroom 4 is probably my office, and Bedroom 3 is probably Brenda's office/upstairs art room. I don't think we need both Bathroom 3 and Bathroom 4 - maybe we eliminate Bath 3, or reposition the 2 offices with the bathroom between them (I want Brenda's ideas on this). Also, maybe a window seat in the Gallery area or Foyer area.

6. Second floor upper right.

We might want to re-position the Northwestern roof garden to face the impluvium. That corner out there facing the fence isn't very festive - maybe the bathroom would be better in that far corner, and the garden moves to where the master bath is on your drawing. Also was thinking  of having the master closet on the far corner, and the Master bathroom adjacent to the master bedroom. Still thinking on all this - looking for Brenda's ideas.

That's it for now. I realize I've complicated a few things:

a. the square footage is even higher with the indoor/outdoor room on the 1st floor upper right.

b. The "top floor rooftop" is new to your design, but this is something I really want. Access to this upper rooftop seems like the biggest challenge, but also tell me if this idea faces any other restrictions (weight, etc.)

c. The impluvium is smaller now with the addition of the indoor/outdoor room. Do we have any room to move the plot site towards the street?

Thanks - looking forward to your thoughts on this.

(dave)

[Tim Haley]

See below #'s correspond to your previous post :)

1. 1st floor upper right.  Done - I am assuming you meant the eastern setback line (since we don't want to push the existing tree too much with house if we don't need to (even though the existing addition is there).  It can also be reserved as options for future outdoor space.   I have added the Pool Bath and think it works well.   Note this kitchenette could be swapped out for a closet and this spaced turned into an extra bedroom that would function like a casitas.  I kept the BBQ on the outside - but it can be moved (but helps define the Impluvium more and works good to extend the North East Roof Garden (see how it relates to the upper level)
2. First floor lower/middle right.  I removed the large sliders.  The fixed windows will be able to alter the furniture and even move the TV and Fireplace to the North or even Western wall but kept the layout as it was since it is interchangeable (yes the Bio-ethanol Fireplaces can be picked up and move by a single person - I have to show you this - and I am adding one in our house).   I didn't add any window seats here however - and instead added one across from the powder room and one upstairs as well directly over the lower one.  For the door to the Impluvium I kept a standard 12ft slider from the Dining Room side.   I love your idea of a waterfall along with the garden (as you know you need water to make a "courtyard" transform into an "impluvium" - :) )
3. First floor upper left  Added the small porch which then increases the size of the North West Roof Garden.  I agree this is a good side for the spa - but we'll focus on that later.
4. Second floor upper right. "Upstairs Den" (or loft) with access to the "Northeastern roof garden" - works good and I left it open to the stair / entry area - so it will feel like a continuous space that extends to the upper level window seat. + see #5 below.... :)
5. Second floor lower right and "Top level roof garden"  The - "Storage room", with maybe a future project to turn it into some sort of specialty room (e.g. media room) - doesn't have to be built with cabinets in the snack area or the platforms for the media room chairs - it can be just built as one large storage space that doesn't count as "livable space" i.e. it is storage space.   Right now you can enter it from the Stair area with a sliding door then also have a balcony over the garage below.   I will have to draw a section for you and elevations to see the -- '''interior "greenhouse" kind of thing.''''.... but basically I was thinking this Den area would have a higher than normal ceiling (the advantages of having a flat roof is you can go up higher without going over the height limit).   The dashed lines indicate an area of a glass floor which will look like a high plant shelf.  This would then have a glass roof or high clerestory windows and can be enclosed as an interior greenhouse.   You would access it from the ladder in the Den and the ladder would also go to the roof (for roof access and top level gardens).   The County would likely reject a stair going up to the roof ......... but another idea and why I didn't remove Bath 4 (I think you should keep it for now) - is that Bath 4 and The Powder Room on the main level can be swapped out for a future elevator that could go to the roof (after the house is already built).   The Powder Room can then be moved under the stair. - We can have plumbing set up for this option as the house is built - including elevator pit / equipment needs as necessary.   The County would unlikely approve this elevator initially but I think it would be easy to add in and "likely" get approved after the house is built. --- Note the big potential WOW factor with this high plant shelf greenhouse garden extends through the media room and out over the balcony over the garage + extends outside over the Impluvium.   It looks more complicated than it really is - and Like I mentioned I'll have to draw it in section and elevation for you - so it makes sense.
6. Second floor lower left/middle.  Bed 4 re-defined as your office but I kept the furniture in Bed 3 (but it is interchangeable - you don't have to put a bed in the space).  See #5 above why you want to keep Bath 4 for now.   Note - I flipped Bath 3 around so if Bath 4 does become an elevator that Bath 3 can be access from an extended hallway for the Den / Loft.
7. Second floor upper left.  '''We might want to re-position the Northwestern roof garden to face the impluvium. ''' = The covered porch for the guest room below now allows the roof garden to wrap the corner - and I think it works well.

============

Let me know what you guys think?

[Dave Long]

Thanks, Tim - I'm pasting our exchange together below, after fixing my left/right problem :-). Also, adding some additional comments to your comments inline.

1. 1st floor upper right.

I'd like to chop the tandem garage space, leaving a half space in front of the 2 cars (for garage shelf space), and then extend out to the set-back line with a room that becomes our indoor/outdoor room. In this room we'd have the bar, and the piano. Some nice sliders would allow us to open up the entire room, but still close off this wing from the rest of the house (for AC, insects, etc.) This would be how we get to/from the spa area, which will likely be out the right side of the impluvium. Adjacent to the indoor/outdoor room should probably be a small bathroom with a shower, for spa cleanup, although I don't know if there's room for that. I still don't know where the grill goes - somewhere in this neck of the woods.

[Tim] Sounds exciting - so it is kind of like a detached Cabana or Entertainment area. If you look at Sheet A2.1 on the Phillips Residence (under groups) - you will see something similar but with yours we would have the option to close it off with sliders.

2. First floor lower/middle right.

Since we have a nice indoor/outdoor room on the right, the Great Room would not need longer open sliders. Instead, maybe 2 nice window seats that look out into the impluvium (I want Brenda's ideas on this) and some very nice windows. I can picture one of Brenda's sofa art pieces across from the powder room, along side one of the window seats; something like that. Also, I'm thinking of moving the Family Room furniture, so that the TV is on the far right wall - leaving corridor to the guest room.

The family room might not even have a door to the impluvium (the guest room has one); also trying to picture what is in the impluvium right outside the family room - I'm thinking waterfall or small path around rose garden, but not a porch/patio (that is on the right side - see (1) above).

[Tim] I agree that the great room doesn't need to open to the Impluvium as much with the entertainment option #1 above + you are right and it would give an option to locate Brenda's window seat :) Since there wouldn't be a need for an indoor / outdoor fireplace-TV as currently designed (per your #1 above) - I agree that it can be moved to the north wall. This would also give better viewing options from the Kitchen. Even though we wouldn't have the large sliding doors I think we would still want many windows and with a few of them operable.

[Dave]: I agree with having some operable windows - maybe even the European style ones. Still wondering if we need a door to the impluvium from the great room - without one, we'd be going in and out of the guest suite a lot to get outside (or walking all the way around to the indoor/outdoor room).

3. First floor upper left.

No major changes to the "art studio"/guest room. This should have a small porch. Still not sure where the spa goes, but probably not on this side of the impluvium.

[Tim] I agree that the Spa should go near the Entertainment #1 above - but you are right that the "art studio"/guest room should have its own small porch and maybe its own private garden on the north or west side (or both) - and something that can be developed over time. This would be a nice "ground" plant / garden that would have a lot of plants that like shade - maybe like ferns (just a suggestion).

4. Second floor upper right.

I'd like to change the "Office Bedroom 5" to be a "Upstairs Den" (or loft) with access to the "Northeastern roof garden". This roof garden will be large, and extend out to cover the entire first floor indoor/outdoor room.

[Tim] I agree this "Northeastern roof garden" can be expanded due to #1 above. I like the concept of turning into a loft / den as opposed to a closed in room (what is nice about this is that guests can then enjoy the many roof top gardens + potential huge WOW with #5 below :) ..... I had a loft on an earlier house and I really liked it. What I am thinking is to remove the wall entirely from the entry / stair area (since it is just the two of you this shouldn't be a problem) = this will give it a more expansive feeling (let me know if this is what you are thinking?) + you can always have it framed with a beam for a wall to be added in later if need be (even after you move in or years later).

[Dave] I think I know which wall you are talking about - the one that is perpendicular to the stairs, right? Yes, I think that should be open, at least for now.

5. Second floor lower right and "Top level roof garden"

I like your design of having the room over the garage being a "Storage room", with maybe a future project to turn it into some sort of specialty room (e.g. media room). I'm hoping that from this room (or maybe the Upstairs Den) I would have access to the "top-level roof garden", which is above the second floor, and potentially stretches out over the entire U shape. Unlike the other "2nd floor" roof tops, this top-level roof top would be mostly for plants - especially along the edge facing the street, to pretty-up the outward view of the house. Access to this level seems a little tricky, but I'm sure you have some ideas. I was originally thinking the access would be from the "NE roof garden", but maybe it would be better to have a stairs from within the Storage Room (not even sure if that possible though). Also, I don't think we need a Southern roof garden, as the top-level roof garden will allow us to pretty-up the front view of the house.

[Tim] The storage room can even be unfinished space - left rough for future build out (and it wouldn't count towards livable area or for taxes). ""I would have access to the "top-level roof garden", which is above the second floor, and potentially stretches out over the entire U shape"" = When you said this - it gave me a radical idea that could be a huge WOW factor for the house = maybe the exterior garden is separated by glass that forms an interior garden - almost a green house (that you could also build later on in the backyard as well) - but this would be an interior garden that you would have to walk through to get to your loft / den. You would still have a loft effect but it would be separated by interior the garden. Having a nicely lit area here would be good for the plants and entry stair bringing in a lot of light from up above to down below.... :) - let me know what you think of this - and I can draw it so you can see what I talking about here.

[Dave] Funny you say this, as my original thought for the loft area was one with glass walls for an interior "greenhouse" kind of thing. I have a hard time picturing it; looking forward to your thoughts. There's a trade-off to be made on this loft room though - an one hand, I've liked other new homes that have this nice cozy loft area for upstairs TV viewing, etc. One the other hand, it is the entrance to the "Great rooftop room" on the NE 2nd floor, it is already is a gateway room, sort of. Still pondering.

What are your thoughts about the "top-level roof top" - the one above the second floor. where are the stairs; are there 2 sets of stairs (e.g. maybe one also from the NW roof garden).

6. Second floor lower left/middle.

Bedroom 4 is probably my office, and Bedroom 3 is probably Brenda's office/upstairs art room. I don't think we need both Bathroom 3 and Bathroom 4 - maybe we eliminate Bath 3, or reposition the 2 offices with the bathroom between them (I want Brenda's ideas on this). Also, maybe a window seat in the Gallery area or Foyer area.

[Tim] Sound good and I think a window seat in the gallery works good (with an upper level vantage point to the Impluvium below) + it could be in the Foyer as you pointed out. Let me know about eliminating one of the baths or not (or turning it into a Jack / Jill.)

[Dave] I'm still thinking of eliminating the other bath; not sure about the layout of the 2 BRs and the bath - I kind of like the bath to be right where you have Bath4 now, and then the 2 BRs after that. But I'm open to other arrangements. Also, where is the laundry room? I was expecting it upstairs somewhere - maybe it's in the mix of these rooms. Also I guess the laundry could be down stairs between the garage and the indoor/outdoor room, but I kinda liked it upstairs (Brenda - your thoughts?)

7. Second floor upper left.

We might want to re-position the Northwestern roof garden to face the impluvium. That corner out there facing the fence isn't very festive - maybe the bathroom would be better in that far corner, and the garden moves to where the master bath is on your drawing. Also was thinking of having the master closet on the far corner, and the Master bathroom adjacent to the master bedroom. Still thinking on all this - looking for Brenda's ideas.

[Tim] I am going to try to talk you out of this change - mainly because the master bath has to have value and view as well + I wanted to give this garden a different exposure (or in this case shade) than the other gardens - but we can go over this later.

[Dave] - OK, I'm open to suggestions. Also maybe there access to the top roof from this NW garden?

Tim Haley said:

Hi Dave,

I'll get started on the modification tomorrow and below is the response to your post below (#'s correspond to your #'s above)

1. 1st floor upper right.  Sounds exciting - so it is kind of like a detached Cabana or Entertainment area.   If you look at Sheet A2.1 on the Phillips Residence (under groups) - you will see something similar but with yours we would have the option to close it off with sliders.
2. First floor lower/middle right  I agree that the great room doesn't need to open to the Impluvium as much with the entertainment option #1 above + you are right and it would give an option to locate Brenda's window seat :)   Since there wouldn't be a need for an indoor / outdoor fireplace-TV as currently designed (per your #1 above) - I agree that it can be moved to the north wall.   This would also give better viewing options from the Kitchen.   Even though we wouldn't have the large sliding doors I think we would still want many windows and with a few of them operable.
3. First floor upper left. I agree that the Spa should go near the Entertainment #1 above - but you are right that the  "art studio"/guest room should have its own small porch and maybe its own private garden on the north or west side (or both) - and something that can be developed over time.   This would be a nice "ground" plant / garden that would have a lot of plants that like shade - maybe like ferns (just a suggestion).
4. Second floor upper right. (think your left / right is mixed up on the upper level?).  I agree this "Northeastern roof garden" can be expanded due to #1 above.   I like the concept of turning into a loft / den as opposed to a closed in room (what is nice about this is that guests can then enjoy the many roof top gardens + potential huge WOW with #5 below :) .....   I had a loft on an earlier house and I really liked it.   What I am thinking is to remove the wall entirely from the entry / stair area (since it is just the two of you this shouldn't be a problem) = this will give it a more expansive feeling (let me know if this is what you are thinking?) + you can always have it framed with a beam for a wall to be added in later if need be (even after you move in or years later).
5. Second floor lower right and "Top level roof garden"  The storage room can even be unfinished space - left rough for future build out (and it wouldn't count towards livable area or for taxes).  ""I would have access to the "top-level roof garden", which is above the second floor, and potentially stretches out over the entire U shape"" = When you said this - it gave me a radical idea that could be a huge WOW factor for the house = maybe the exterior garden is separated by glass that forms an interior garden - almost a green house (that you could also build later on in the backyard as well) - but this would be an interior garden that you would have to walk through to get to your loft / den.  You would still have a loft effect but it would be separated by interior the garden.   Having a nicely lit area here would be good for the plants and entry stair bringing in a lot of light from up above to down below.... :) - let me know what you think of this - and I can draw it so you can see what I talking about here.
6. Second floor lower left/middle. Sound good and I think a window seat in the gallery works good (with an upper level vantage point to the Impluvium below) + it could be in the Foyer as you pointed out.  Let me know about eliminating one of the baths or not (or turning it into a Jack / Jill.)
7. Second floor upper left. I am going to try to talk you out of this change - mainly because the master bath has to have value and view as well + I wanted to give this garden a different exposure (or in this case shade) than the other gardens - but we can go over this later.

Miscellaneous. 

• a. - Yes because garage space doesn't count as livable s.f.
• b. - I think we can get this to be really exciting with #5 above - I may have to draw this out so you can see the WOW factor here (and it would connect both exterior gardens with the interior glass garden)
• c. -  I think the Impluvium is still a very good size and will be an awesome outdoor space that will compete with the upper level gardens + both working in synergy will make it feel like the Hanging Gardens of Babylon :) - but we do have to stay within the setback.  In San Francisco you are allowed to project across a setback line with a bay window but we can't do that here (besides I think we have plenty of room to work with).

--- Let me know what you think? + I may need to draw up most of this so you can see it.

[Tim Haley]

Hi Dave,

I'll get started on the modification tomorrow and below is the response to your post below (#'s correspond to your #'s above)

1. 1st floor upper right.  Sounds exciting - so it is kind of like a detached Cabana or Entertainment area.   If you look at Sheet A2.1 on the Phillips Residence (under groups) - you will see something similar but with yours we would have the option to close it off with sliders.
2. First floor lower/middle right  I agree that the great room doesn't need to open to the Impluvium as much with the entertainment option #1 above + you are right and it would give an option to locate Brenda's window seat :)   Since there wouldn't be a need for an indoor / outdoor fireplace-TV as currently designed (per your #1 above) - I agree that it can be moved to the north wall.   This would also give better viewing options from the Kitchen.   Even though we wouldn't have the large sliding doors I think we would still want many windows and with a few of them operable.
3. First floor upper left. I agree that the Spa should go near the Entertainment #1 above - but you are right that the  "art studio"/guest room should have its own small porch and maybe its own private garden on the north or west side (or both) - and something that can be developed over time.   This would be a nice "ground" plant / garden that would have a lot of plants that like shade - maybe like ferns (just a suggestion).
4. Second floor upper right. (think your left / right is mixed up on the upper level?).  I agree this "Northeastern roof garden" can be expanded due to #1 above.   I like the concept of turning into a loft / den as opposed to a closed in room (what is nice about this is that guests can then enjoy the many roof top gardens + potential huge WOW with #5 below :) .....   I had a loft on an earlier house and I really liked it.   What I am thinking is to remove the wall entirely from the entry / stair area (since it is just the two of you this shouldn't be a problem) = this will give it a more expansive feeling (let me know if this is what you are thinking?) + you can always have it framed with a beam for a wall to be added in later if need be (even after you move in or years later).
5. Second floor lower right and "Top level roof garden"  The storage room can even be unfinished space - left rough for future build out (and it wouldn't count towards livable area or for taxes).  ""I would have access to the "top-level roof garden", which is above the second floor, and potentially stretches out over the entire U shape"" = When you said this - it gave me a radical idea that could be a huge WOW factor for the house = maybe the exterior garden is separated by glass that forms an interior garden - almost a green house (that you could also build later on in the backyard as well) - but this would be an interior garden that you would have to walk through to get to your loft / den.  You would still have a loft effect but it would be separated by interior the garden.   Having a nicely lit area here would be good for the plants and entry stair bringing in a lot of light from up above to down below.... :) - let me know what you think of this - and I can draw it so you can see what I talking about here.
6. Second floor lower left/middle. Sound good and I think a window seat in the gallery works good (with an upper level vantage point to the Impluvium below) + it could be in the Foyer as you pointed out.  Let me know about eliminating one of the baths or not (or turning it into a Jack / Jill.)
7. Second floor upper left. I am going to try to talk you out of this change - mainly because the master bath has to have value and view as well + I wanted to give this garden a different exposure (or in this case shade) than the other gardens - but we can go over this later.

Miscellaneous. 

• a. - Yes because garage space doesn't count as livable s.f.
• b. - I think we can get this to be really exciting with #5 above - I may have to draw this out so you can see the WOW factor here (and it would connect both exterior gardens with the interior glass garden)
• c. -  I think the Impluvium is still a very good size and will be an awesome outdoor space that will compete with the upper level gardens + both working in synergy will make it feel like the Hanging Gardens of Babylon :) - but we do have to stay within the setback.  In San Francisco you are allowed to project across a setback line with a bay window but we can't do that here (besides I think we have plenty of room to work with).

--- Let me know what you think? + I may need to draw up most of this so you can see it.